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| Result: Searchterm 'Coherence'
found in 9 messages |
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More Results:  Database (19) |
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Herbert Müller
Thu. 5 May.22,
01:33
[Reply (11 of 12) to:
'90 excitation pulse vs 180 inversion pulse'
started by: 'Bjorn Redfors'
on Sat. 27 Jun.09]
 Category:
Basics and Physics
|
| 90 excitation pulse vs 180 inversion pulse |
Hello,
I dont know if anyone has, for him/herself, answered this question. I know it is an old thread. But this is the question which also botheres me the most in NMR/MRI.
I refer now to a picture, which is illustrated in the book from Tim Claridge (High resolution NMR techniques).
Here, a RF pulse (lets say a 90 degree pulse) is said to have two effects on the initial z-magnetisation. First, it allows energy transfer between the two Zeeman-states in a way, that i equalizes the population difference between them. So there is no z- magnetisation anymore after 90 degree pulse. Th esecond effect is, that it induces phase-coherence. And this phase coherence is then responsible for the x-magnetisation, which is measured.
And now I have the same question. Why is this phase coherence lost (or is it not?), when applying an initial 180-degree pulse. Understandable for me is, why the population difference in z is reversed, but I dont understand, why there is no xy magnetisation anymore.
Maybe some of you have figured out the answer in the meantime?
Greetings
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|  View the whole thread | | |
Math G
Fri. 30 Jun.17,
21:02
[Reply (10 of 12) to:
'90 excitation pulse vs 180 inversion pulse'
started by: 'Bjorn Redfors'
on Sat. 27 Jun.09]
Category:
Basics and Physics
|
| 90 excitation pulse vs 180 inversion pulse |
I will try an answer to this rather old tread, in case someone stumble upon this like me.
The phenomenon of "coherence" that produce transverse magnetization after a 90 RF pulse cannot be answered by classical mechanics, or any simple model that represents individual protons as precessing magnets in either the parallel/antiparallel direction with regards to the MRI magnetic field.
Rather, it is a phenomenon related to quantum mechanics and the effect of a RF field on a interacting group of particles with spins (not necessarily oriented as parallel/antiparallel, I might add, even under the effect of a magnetic field).
The simplest depiction, as I understand, would be to imagine a group of spins as literally rotating as a whole under the effect of the RF. After a certain time (corresponding to a 90 degree pulse), the net magnetization that was oriented parallel to the MRI magnetic field, is now oriented in the transverse plane, causing transverse magnetization and signal. If you further apply RF, the system will continue to rotate, shifting gradually toward an antiparralel orientation, losing transverse magnetization in the process.
Hope its clearer!
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shahrokh Rad
Sat. 4 Oct.14,
13:44
[Reply (9 of 12) to:
'90 excitation pulse vs 180 inversion pulse'
started by: 'Bjorn Redfors'
on Sat. 27 Jun.09]
Category:
Basics and Physics
|
| 90 excitation pulse vs 180 inversion pulse |
All of the responds are misleading.
what is the correct answer??????
why does the 90 excitation pulse result in phase coherence while the 180 pulse won't.
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Oliver Lyttelton
Mon. 1 Mar.10,
13:39
[Reply (8 of 12) to:
'90 excitation pulse vs 180 inversion pulse'
started by: 'Bjorn Redfors'
on Sat. 27 Jun.09]
Category:
Basics and Physics
|
| 90 excitation pulse vs 180 inversion pulse |
Okay, so this thread is answering close to a question I had, which is how to conceptually understand what happens with alpha>90 degrees excitation pulses.
I can imagine spinning tops, precessing at the Larmor frequency, I can imagine that as you apply the excitation pulse which is always in the transverse plane to the main magnet, you start to pull the tops further away from the B0 axis and bring them into coherence so like lots of little lighthouses they are all bright/dark in phase with each other. I can imagine a 90 degree pulse bring the spins completely into the transverse plane. I can imagine them relaxing, dephasing quickly and then slowly reducing their angle of precession back up towards initial state close to direction B0.
But what I can't understand in my (rather newtonian) model, is what happens as you continue to excite beyond the 90 degree transverse plane. I sort of get that somehow the spins continue to rotate in some (weird) dimension, and that they have to come back through that (weird) dimension first before returning from 90 degrees back to the relaxed state. But what happens in "weird" dimension is beyond my conceptual model. Can someone extend my model for me, preferrably without signal equations?
tar muchly,
Oliver
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Reader Mail
Wed. 30 Dec.09,
01:26
[Reply (6 of 12) to:
'90 excitation pulse vs 180 inversion pulse'
started by: 'Bjorn Redfors'
on Sat. 27 Jun.09]
Category:
Basics and Physics
|
| 90 excitation pulse vs 180 inversion pulse |
Hello: would be probably convenient to reformulate the original question, or at least to clarify a little.... Why are the "spins" "brought into coherence" by the 90 excitation pulse?. For instance, a hard 90 ex pulse itself does not affect the coherence of spins in normal conditions, nor brough them into coherence. However, it may add an additional decoherence if the RF field is not homogeneous or, in case it would be applied under the presence of a strong static gradient. Same thing for the 180 deg pulse.
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